From Roots to Home: Visualizing the Journey through Homelessness

 

Interviewer: Avery Moore Kloss

Participant[s]: Jason Webb, Erin Dej, Deborah Hill, Barb McPhee, Simon Lazanja

Length of Interview: Approximately 24:38

 

[Introduction Music] 00:00

Avery Moore Kloss 00:07

Welcome to CRSP talk. A podcast from the Center for Research on Security Practices at Wilfrid Laurier University. I'm Avery Moore Kloss. Today, we're continuing our miniseries on homelessness and belonging, and in this episode, we were very lucky to have three guests with lived experience of homelessness, talk about the importance of a very specific piece of art. It's called ‘From Roots to Home’, and a link to view this art is in the show notes of this episode. We've prepared a short documentary soundscape of Deborah Barb and Simon talking about this art piece and what it means to them. But first, to add some much-needed context, I'm joined by Erin Dej and Jason Webb, who are going to tell us about this piece of art, how it was created, and why its message is so important for all of us to understand. Erin Dej is an associate professor in the Department of Criminology here at Laurier. Erin is a critical criminologist who has been researching homelessness for 15 years. Jason Webb is the senior policy researcher at the BC First Nations Justice Council. He's developing a pre-arrest diversion program for Indigenous peoples experiencing homelessness in Prince George, BC. During the collaborative creation of this piece of art, we're here to discuss, Jason was a post-doctoral fellow who co-led the creation of the advisory group that created the art. Welcome Erin and welcome Jason.

 

Erin and Jason 01:22

Thanks, Avery

 

Avery 01:24

So, we're here to talk about this piece of art called From Roots to Home. Both of you can jump in, but Jason, I'm wondering if you could start. Just give us some background on how this piece of art came together.

 

Jason Webb 01:35

Yeah, sure. We wanted to do something that was collaborative, like everyone participated in it. And I think part of the reason why we wanted to do an art piece was, we wanted something that would not only just express the lived experience of homelessness, but also, too, there was a lot of conversations about when it comes to the experience of homelessness, and I'm not just speaking as a researcher, but also as a lived expert myself. One of the things that I found quite, sometimes it's hard to put into words, but I feel as though that the experience of homelessness is humiliating and traumatic. And I think one of the things that I find in my own research as well is despair. Despair is something that many people experiencing homelessness, especially those who have experienced it for years, there is this deep feeling of despair. And I think the group really wanted to shift away from the sort of narratives of despair, and towards like a narrative of hope. I think that was kind of what they really wanted to talk about. That homelessness is not something that defines you, it is not something that is forever, really, it's something that you can transition out of with the right support. And I think the group really wanted to express that. I think a lot of homelessness research can really emphasize, is the despair that people experiencing homelessness can feel. But, I think also we need to start having more messages of hope that there are people out there, there are good people out there, that are trying to do the right thing, that are trying to support the most vulnerable members of our society, and there is an opportunity for people to find some stability and some peace in their lives. As our advisory group members have also experienced themselves. They've experienced very traumatic moment[s] in their lives, and now they're involved with a research advisory group and making beautiful art and sharing their experiences widely. I think that's such an important part of the process, of not just understanding homelessness, but also just outright ending it.

Erin Dej 03:57

What I'll add is, once the advisory group had decided on ideas about what they wanted the image to look like, we needed to find an artist to be able to bring their vision to life. Something that I have no experience with, and have never commissioned art in my life. And what's extra special about this work is that we were able to connect with Andrea, who she herself has lived experience of homelessness, as well. And it was the perfect pairing, because she understood exactly the messages that Barb, Deborah, and Simon wanted to convey with the art. And I don't think anybody else could have put together such a perfect emulation of their vision than Andrea could. So, it was really exceptional to be able to work with Andrea.

Avery Moore Kloss 04:46

Absolutely. Thanks. Erin, that's really important. Jason, you know, we're about to hear about this art piece from the people who helped create it, the Advisory Council. And I just wondered if you could give us a sense of; you talked a little bit about it, but why is it so important that we have people with lived experience of homelessness tell us this story?

Jason Webb 05:07

Yeah, I think when we look at the relatively short history of research on homelessness. Up until very recently, most of the time, people experiencing homelessness who were in this type of research were often either treated as statistics or simply as research subjects. So, I think it really comes down to that old saying that, you know, my colleagues who work in, critical disability studies say that it's ‘nothing about us without us’. And I think that's such an important statement, even in the world of doing research on homelessness and poverty. And I think we shouldn't be talking about people. We should be talking with people. I mean, not every researcher has experienced homelessness who works in this field, and I think it's, it's having those narratives and experiences, be at the forefront of the research. So that's why this art piece is incredibly important. Not just for, you know, the research that we did in these three cities, but I think we also want to send a message in general, that this is how we should be thinking about homelessness. I would rather have people with lived experience be at the forefront of ending this, right? Because those are the ones who were the most affected by it.

Avery Moore Kloss 06:29

Yeah, absolutely. So, the soundscape that we're referring to, that the listener is about to hear, includes the advisory members you're talking about, Deborah Hill, Barb McPhee and Simon Lazanja. And Erin, the audio in this soundscape comes from interviews you did with the advisory group. So, I wonder if you can just tell us a little bit about the voices we're about to hear.

Erin Dej 06:49

I'm so honored to be able to introduce these three people who are just such special people. They're my co-workers, and they're my friends three years into this work. So, Deborah Hill is a registered Mohawk of the Bear Clan from Six Nations in the Mississaugas of the Credit Reserve. She has experienced homelessness in her life. For approximately six years, she experienced unsheltered homelessness and struggled with substance use. Now, Deborah is an incredible community volunteer and community organizer. She has had roles as peer support worker in downtown outreach teams. She's currently receiving her diploma from Conestoga College, and she is a testament to how to build your life in a good way. Simon Lazanja is a lived expert of homelessness, and he is currently living in Chatham, Ontario. He is a person who has done incredible things in his life, including professional football, and brings his dedication and passion for life into the work that he's doing with us now. He's also doing really incredible community organizing in Chatham and supporting people who are currently experiencing homelessness in that city. And Barb McPhee, if you have been to Guelph, you have probably run into Barb McPhee, because she is everywhere and is a driver for community organizing there. Barb has lived in poverty since 1953 and in that time, has experienced homelessness on multiple occasions. She has taken those experiences of homelessness that she's had and really drives them towards empowering marginalized families and people who are experiencing homelessness. Especially around storytelling and how the power of storytelling can inform policy and practice change. She currently sits on multiple community groups, and boards, and organizations, all working towards community development and making sure that the voices of lived experience are at those tables.

Avery Moore Kloss 09:06

Wonderful. Thank you so much for all those intros, Erin and Jason, for your setup. And with that, here are Deborah Hill, Barb McPhee and Simon Lazanja, describing from roots to home and what the symbolism in that piece of art means to them.

 

[Background Music Playing] 09:21

Deborah Hill 09:29

I'm sitting on the ground and I'm looking up at this big, beautiful maple tree.

Barb McPhee 09:33

The image is symbolic to the transformation of how an individual may feel while they experience homelessness, to being home full.

Deborah Hill 09:45

It looks like one side is fall because there's no leaves on it, and the other side is full.

Barb McPhee 09:51

So, there's [a] dark side, which means that there's dark times and there's brighter times too. So, one side of the tree is darker, and the other one is built with leaves and color. The branches that show the twigs in the leaves, that are your support system. That's your coping mechanisms.

Deborah Hill 10:17

I’m watching the sun and the moon above, and then I'm going down, and I'm looking at the roots.

Simon Lazanja 10:26

The growth of the tree where the roots come in.

Deborah Hill 10:29

Which are really curly and underneath the ground and seem solid. But are they really solid?

 

[Background Music Playing] 10:36

Barb McPhee 10:40

The soil’s our Mother Earth. She just keeps on giving, rebirthing. You cut a tree down; another one will come.

Deborah Hill 10:50

I see the trunk and imagine trying to get up that tree when on the side that looks dead, is no way to get up there. The vines are too high on the tree to get at it, and on the right side, which looks full and inviting.

Barb McPhee 11:09

We have a ladder there as a helping aid.

Simon Lazanja 11:14

The Ladder outside of the tree resonates with me, because I've been on that ladder. Especially that third step of the ladder, where it's broken and you fall down, and you gotta get up again, and you gotta deal with that obstacle. Been there, done that, taking those steps.

Deborah Hill 11:34

How do you get up and through that ladder? Sitting back and looking at that picture now, you can see a tree with no way to get up. People who are homeless, how do they find a home with the labels of what the tree stands for, what the ladder stands for, and how you get up there. You finally get to the top, and there's a beautiful home, sweet home with flowers and takes away that dead side of the tree.

Simon Lazanja 12:04

12:04 I know there is a home and hence Home, Sweet Home, but we really don't know how long that home might last.

Barb McPhee 12:13

There's a bird that would sing, and we need that. We need reminding, of the beauty, the song, to be able to find the inner peace.

Simon Lazanja 12:26

I think one day before I leave this earth, I'll look at that tree and it'll just be a reminder of where I came from.

 

[Background Music Playing] 12:32

Simon Lazanja 12:42

When I first started doing this, I was very skeptical. Didn't like it, but it's helped me grow. I guess we're going back to the tree. Me, Deb and Barb, putting all of our thoughts, I guess, together, and building some kind of a vision, some kind of a picture. Think it's just beautiful. We put all of our feelings and all of our thoughts into something, and we created the tree.

Deborah Hill 13:11

I'm really not sure what I was expecting. I just know that we wanted to get from the roots, which is where people are, right? Everything starts from the roots. And how getting to that home, sweet home, that tree house, that beautiful place; how it was simple to get there in your mind, but when you actually start putting the picture together, it wasn't that simple.

Barb McPhee 13:40

I wanted to do it because I think it's important that people get to know from the experience side. And I tell people all the time, ‘I'm back there behind the scenes too, you know. I'm working for you’. And the people need to know that, too, that there are people who care. It was important to see something of the tree image come to life. It was on my mind. I didn't know how to express it. I didn't know what to do. But this group, it was fantastic and feeding off of each other, it was great. The different environments that we have all encountered are very unique, and just like the tree is unique, right?

Deborah Hill 14:34

We're all coming from the same place. We're all coming from the lived experience and from the storytelling piece.

Simon Lazanja 14:42

We’ve all listened, and the key word is ‘listen’. We've all listened, and we've resonated, like taking each other, going, ‘Oh, okay, oh, okay’. That's the most important part. My father always told me, Knowledge is power. You know what? And I think we brought a lot of knowledge, a lot of power to this thing. But you know what? At the end of the day, I don't think we've judged each other. I think we've all been at the same table. We've listened to each other, and we've, tried to make a difference, I guess. And I think it's powerful.

Barb McPhee 15:17

It represents the individuality, unbias, trustworthiness. But I didn't know these people before I started this group, but it seems that we're all old friends. But our journeys have brought us to this point to come to a gathering in developing such an amazing piece of artwork. And thank you, Andrea. We all have those knots, like those trees, those knots, the stress. All through our journeys, we can survive those. We are surviving those.

 

[Background Music Playing] 15:59

Deborah Hill 16:06

Most people don't have a clue when it comes to what real homelessness looks like, feels like. Being able to show them through the picture and with the descriptions that we've come up with for the picture, it tells a story that is not dead. It's not boring. It's pretty exciting to know that, look at how we can change. I want people to know that it’s possible if we all work together like we have been. And everybody puts in their story or puts their piece of the story into the bigger picture, that it can be possible.

 

[Background Music Playing] 16:55

Deborah Hill 17:02

People need to listen to stories about homelessness, and then they get to understand it a little better.

 

[Background Music Playing] 17:09

Simon Lazanja 17:27

Homelessness is homelessness. Whether you're in Toronto, Los Angeles, Chicago, Vancouver, Little House on the Prairie, homelessness is homelessness. Well, I have nothing to eat if I have no money in my pocket. The same feeling in Kitchener, Ontario or Toronto, Ontario. I think the word homeless, what does that mean? There's some people that are homeless that don't have nothing to eat, but yet they have a roof over their head. There's, you know, different versions of homelessness, right? Foreclosure on your house. You're homeless, but yet you both have good jobs.

Barb McPhee 18:08

When you're asked, ‘Why don't they just get a room? Right? Get an apartment, just do it’. Well, there's a lot of things that need to be done as well, and it's the system itself is overwhelming. And just to start, what do you need to do? Well, do you have ID? No. Well, then now you got to go and get all your ID to appease for the application. You just really don't know what to expect when you go inside. Where are you going to live? Who are you going to live with? It's all unknowing, and the unknowing is scary.

Simon Lazanja 18:51

You know what? People think it's homeless, as some guy begging on the corner of a street. When you see me in real life, and obviously I take care of myself, I shower, I bathe, I shave, put on a nice shirt. You would never, ever think in your wildest dream that I was homeless, but I am.

Deborah Hill 19:09

I think the biggest piece is don't judge. Until you're able to either walk in shoes of people that have been or are homeless, don’t judge.

 

[Background Music Playing] 19:22

Barb McPhee 19:31

Everything changes. Maybe change your mind. People you know, lending a helping hand. Don't always have to give money. You know, I know girls like to have makeup, and perfumes, or deodorant, because they lose it every day. They can lose it every day. Even just supplying a pair of socks a day. It does a lot of wonders. You need somebody to care for them. Reach out.

 

[Background Music Playing] 19:59

Barb McPhee 20:04

Everybody has their gifts, even the people around the street; they all have gifts. We all have gifts. That's why we're supposed to be a community, because we all have gifts of different things, and that’s how we're supposed to grow, is by interlocking those gifts. Like the three sisters, the corn, beans, and squash, they work off one another. The corn grows, so that the beans can have a little bit of shelter, the squash gives, they're all supportive of one another. We as a community need to be that too.

 

[Background Music Playing] 20:38

Deborah Hill 20:46

So, I'm sitting on the ground and I'm looking up at this big, beautiful maple tree. I wish that this vision was around years ago, because I can see my journey through the story. And if something like that, people, when they look at it, they can see their journey. Here I am at the roots, and did I climb up the tree to the vines? Did I try to go up that broken ladder? What did I do to get to that spot? So, it was kind of, to me, it's like a guideline of how to get up to that tree and find your home.

Barb McPhee 21:26

To me, it means that we're not alone. We're brought into this earth with 13 trees designated just for us. Those are our lifelines, our breathing mechanisms. The bird that sings. I remember being woken up by those birds, you know, like 4:30 in the morning. One morning, 2:31, one little bird wants to wake up, but just no, no, no, no, go back to sleep. But it also reminds us that we need to be patient, and we have our own coping mechanisms that we can reach out to other people. We can reach out to our friends, family, plant your own seed and that means you say what you need in your life. Say it, let the universe take it, and then you watch it grow, and it goes both ways. You can plant good seeds, and you can plant bad seeds. So, it depends on what you want is what you say to the universe, because the universe is listening, and those trees are listening. We need those trees.

Simon Lazanja 22:42

It can get better. Just kind of believe in yourself. And do the right thing. There's a way out. A lot of people don’t want to help people. And it can get better. Don't be ashamed of yourself. You're not the first or the last one that's been there.

 

[Background Music Playing] 23:13

Deborah Hill 23:22

I want people to know that it's possible if we all work together, and everybody puts in their story or puts their piece of the story into the bigger picture, it can be possible.

 

[Background Music Playing] 23:33

Avery Moore Kloss 23:47

Thank you for listening to CRISP talk a big. Thank you to Erin Dej and Jason Webb for their help with this episode. And of course, this episode and the piece of art from ‘Roots to Home’ was only possible with the leadership and storytelling of Deborah Hill, Barb McPhee and Simon Lazanja. You can find a link to the art piece mentioned in this episode in the show notes.

 

[Outro Music Playing] 24:05

Avery Moore Kloss 24:09

CRSP talk is a production from the Center for Research on Security Practices at Wilfrid Laurier University. For more research stories, listen to past episodes of this podcast. For more information about the work we do at the Center for Research on Security Practices, please visit our website at CRSP.online. Thank you for listening to CRSP Talk. We'll be back again soon with more research to uncover. I'm Avery Moore Kloss.