Black Overrepresentation in the Canadian Youth Justice System: the role of ethnic associations
Centre for Research on Security Practices
INTERVIEWER: Avery Moore Kloss
PARTICIPANT[S]: Robert Ame
LENGTH OF INTERVIEW: approximately 36:20
Avery Moore Kloss 00:07
Welcome to CRSP Talk a podcast from the Centre for Research on Security Practices or CRSP at Wilfrid Laurier University. I’m your host Avery Moore Kloss. On this podcast, our researchers showcase their work, tell stories and inspire some interesting conversations. Each episode spotlights the work of one researcher who’s a member of CRSP. Today I’m excited to be joined by criminologist and human rights scholar, Doctor Robert Ame.
Robert Ame 00:33
Hi, my name is Robert Ame, and I’m an associate professor of Human Rights and Criminology at Wilfrid Laurier University. As an associate professor, I have several responsibilities, one of which is to do research. I also teach, mainly children's rights, crimes against humanity, youth Justice, and Transitional Justice.
Avery Moore Kloss 01:02
Doctor Ame is here to share his work on Black youth in Canada's criminal justice system and the overrepresentation of ethnic minorities within those systems, so please welcome Doctor Robert Ame.
Robert, you have this really rich body of work and thank you for detailing all the wonderful work that you're doing. But today we’re here to talk about the idea of black overrepresentation in the Canadian youth justice system. So, I wonder if you can just give me a sense of what your research says about that and why you’re motivated to research that specific issue.
Robert Ame 01:42
Yeah, this research was born out of two observations in the comparative youth justice literature. One, the decline in youth crime in Western developed countries and two, the over-representation of Indigenous and ethnic minorities in the youth justice systems in these countries. Let me expand upon those two points. The first observation, which is the decline of youth crime in developed countries, has been described as one of the most robust findings in criminology.
Researchers have confirmed that drop in youth crime in the US, Australia, the Netherlands, Spain and the UK. The second observation is the increase in… or the overrepresentation of indigenous and ethnic minorities. So, it’s quite interesting to me, or ironic, that at the same time as overall youth crime is dropping in developed countries, there is this identifiable group of youth who are overrepresented in the system in this way.
Fernandez, Molina and Gutierrez in their 2020 work have noted this about the Spanish youth justice system and I quote, “The drop is detected especially among the economically privileged Spanish boys. In contrast, the socially and economically disadvantaged, girls and in recent years immigrant juveniles do not feature in this decreasing trend.” So, this description of the Spanish system is true of all Western developed countries.
First, whether it is African Americans and Latinos in the US, Indigenous people in Australia, black and people of colour in England, or even Moroccan and Caribbean youth in the Netherlands, it is ethnic minorities who are most highly processed through every stage of both the adult and youth criminal justice systems in these countries. Now Canada is not an exception to these two observations. The decline in overall youth crime in Canada has largely been attributed to the introduction of the Youth Criminal Justice Act in 2003 and also the over-representation of Indigenous and ethnic minorities has been well researched, especially that of Indigenous youth within the justice system of Canada. In essence, Indigenous and ethnic minorities are not benefiting from the overall decline in youth crime in Canada.
Avery Moore Kloss 04:49
So, you see this disparity, this over-representation, and obviously one of the questions is going to be why. But I wonder when you move into this kind of work that you're doing, what are your objectives? Like, what questions are you trying to answer? And when you take on a project of this size, what are you hoping you can find the answer to?
Robert Ame 05:08
Until recently, however, it's only indigenous over-representation that has been widely discussed in the Canadian literature. Black over-representation has not been well researched. This has to do with the fact that, up until recently, Statistics Canada did not disaggregate its data in terms of race. So, it was only recently that Statistics Canada opened the doors for the collection of risk-based statistics that scholars could access from them. First, the first objective of this paper is to highlight black ethnic minority youth over-representation in the Canadian youth justice system. Since this is a relatively new, should I call it sub-field in the sense that a new door has been opened for research on this issue.
Then my second objective is to explore how black ethnic associations can help address the problem.
Avery Moore Kloss 06:28
Right. So, you're specifically looking at the role of those associations and before we get into kind of the work of those associations and just really talk about that over representation, I do wonder why did you decide to study youth? Like why not black adults or ethnic minorities who are adults in the criminal justice system? Why do you choose to focus your specific work on youth?
Robert Ame 06:50
Youth constitute a significant portion of about 1.2 million blacks in Canada and that number is from Statistics Canada 2016 population census. You know, according to this census, blacks account for about 3.5%. Canada's total population and 15.6% of Canada's visible minority population. According to this census, black youth are younger than the general population in Canada. For example, in 2016, the median age for the black population was 29.6 years, while it was 40.7 years for the total population. Children under 15 years old constitute about 26.6% of the total black population and 16.9% of the total Canadian population. Let me contrast that we've one number for the adult black population. You know the 2016 census shows that only 7.3% of the black population were aged 65 years and over compared to 15.9% of the total population. And so diagrammatically, if we are to express this, the black population in Canada looks like a pyramid with a broad base. Consisting of children and youth and a very narrow top made up of adults. And so obviously a significant proportion, a large proportion of the black, you know, population in Canada are made up of children and youth and so that says something very important to research. In fact, youth who fall under the age of 18, the category that generally falls under the youth justice system constitute a significant portion of black youth in Canada. So that's a very significant segment of the Canadian youth population that is worth researching.
Avery Moore Kloss 09:16
Yeah. Thank you. I think those numbers are really important to guide this discussion as well. So how do those numbers change when you get to who is represented in the youth criminal justice system? Can you tell us a little bit more about kind of the numbers of black youth we're seeing in that system, how that kind of relates to the youth population under the age of 18 in Canada?
Robert Ame 09:37
Yeah, you know, time will only permit me to give a snapshot of this phenomenon, and the numbers involved. As I stated earlier, black overrepresentation in the criminal justice system is slowly but increasingly being documented since Statistics Canada started this aggregating risk data and so to give a snapshot of the numbers involved, I will focus on two main sources.
One a study conducted by John Howard Society in 2018 titled, An Equal Justice: Experiences and outcomes of Young People in Ontario's Youth Bail System. Their figures are based on the study from 2006 to 2016. So, admission to detention for black youth, it is double in fact more than double that of the general population. When it comes to admission to secure detention. It is more than triple that of the general population. And the other source that I will cite to prove this over-representation is studies done by Dr. Kanika Samuels-Wortley, one in 2019 and the other in 2021. In her study, also focuses on the front end of the justice system, but the focus is on Black youth interactions with police. She attributed Black youth over-representation to racial profiling. According to her, there is one a higher rate of police surveillance of black youth. Two they are most likely to be charged and three, they are less likely to be cautioned by the police. So, she calls on this, the harsher treatment and hyper-surveillance of black youth.
So basically, this gives us an idea of the over-representation of black youth, and this is just the front end. But as I said due to time limitations, we can’t talk about the other segments of the criminal justice system.
Avery Moore Kloss 12:18
Right, yeah. So those are really staggering numbers. And I think talking about racial profiling and it's really interesting also to see reasons. Why is this? Why is that over-representation there? Which I assume is also part of the work that you're doing. But I also want to talk about something you said earlier, which is talking about ethnic association. So, what is the role of ethnic associations as these numbers come out and as there's this move to try and understand and reverse this problem of over-representation of black youth in the justice system?
Robert Ame 12:53
Well, you know, talking about the role of ethnic associations in curbing youth crime might sound like inputting fault to these black ethnic associations. It’s like we’re saying, “Well it is ethnic minority’s fault that the juvenile justice system is biased against its youth”. Not at all. That is not my intention nor the intention of this project, because as we all know, in criminology, the pigment of one's skin is not a factor in crime and should therefore not be a factor in the criminal justice system. Instead, my suggestion of a rule for ethnic associations is that they should help in addressing a problem that already exists, a problem that was not caused or created by them. In fact, for me, I liken the role of ethnic associations in curbing this problem to defensive driving taught at driving school. It is not that the driving school is saying you are a bad driver but rather an acknowledgment that in real life they would always be bad drivers out there and you should know how to protect yourself from them. So based on the available literature and the lived experience of blacks, including their youth, their reality is that they would be discriminated against in the system. So, my point then is in roping in ethnic minority associations into the problem of their over-representation in the justice system is for ethnic minorities to know how to protect themselves and their youth based on their reality within the criminal justice system.
Avery Moore Kloss 15:00
And so just to clarify, what you're saying is one of the roles that these ethnic associations can play is to help educate youth about their higher risk of surveillance, of being charged, like you said, of not being given a warning. Is that what you're saying? That these ethnic associations, they can work on education with the youth to help protect them.
Robert Ame 15:21
Yes, plus several other things that I think they can do. It's a protective role to educate their children about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. And once again, this call for education by ethnic association of their members about what they can do and what they cannot do in Canada is based once again on data from Statistics Canada 2016 and 2011. According to Statistics Canada Majority of blacks in Canada are recent immigrants. Since the literature shows that family structure, values and parenting styles in immigrant countries, that is the countries that these immigrants are coming from are different from those in Canada, one can imagine the anomic situation docamian anomic situation that these immigrant parents would find themselves in, having arrived in a new country that has different family structure, the focus on the nuclear family, individualistic lifestyle and a more permissive upbringing, compared to where they are coming from, the extended family, communal lifestyle and a more rigid child upbringing. It then becomes imperative on the part of parents, immigrant parents, this new arrivals in Canada to first educate themselves and then educate their children. And that is why I see a role for ethnic associations. They can organize programs to educate their members, especially the parents amongst them, on Canadian laws, policies, programs and initiatives pertaining to families and children.
Also, there are several other things that I think these associations could do. One is black ethnic associations should adopt community programming targeted at engaging the youth. In fact, one of the issues that came up at the workshop where an earlier version of this paper was prepared, was that black ethnic associations usually do not include children and youth in their programming, even though the children and youth often follow their parents to their meetings. With time, especially as their children grew into youth, they stop attending association meetings. Many youth then tend to drift away from their ethnic communities and their values and their lifestyles and that sort of thing. I think a very important programming will be the development of after-school programs including extra classes to assist black children and youth with their homework and other school assignments. Especially, they should provide help to students studying science, technology, engineering and math, you know the STEM disciplines. Several black you complain about having difficulty with mathematics, for example. So, this would help, you know, doing this, creating these after-school programs would help forestall the high incidence of school dropouts among black youth and place black youth in a good position to compete with their colleagues from other ethnic groups in school. Another thing I think ethnic associations could do is to encourage and support their members to become actively involved in Canadian politics and public life. At the end of the day, it is the politicians and legislators above the provincial and federal levels and also the municipal level who made policies for citizens to follow. Thus, avoiding involvement in both local and national politics does not augur well for the making of policies which could advance the interests of blacks and their children and youth. Blacks must be actively involved in the politics of their new country, black ethnic associations should encourage and support and resource their members to seek elected positions as members of municipal councils, school boards and encourage their members to seek provincial and national political positions. That way they, will also sit at the table where the policies, the laws and the decisions are made about their children.
Avery Moore Kloss 20:38
Yeah, absolutely. I think that driving engagement is a really interesting solution. I do wonder, Robert, when obviously the solution you're pitching here is the involvement of these black ethnic associations. I wonder have you had much back and forth with ethnic associations in Canada about whether they think this is feasible? Like whether they have enough funding, the time, the volunteers to make this happen? I just wonder on the ground when we take that as the solution, what needs to happen to make that feasible?
Robert Ame 21:09
Yes, that is a good question. First of all, I'm a member of the Ghanian Community Association in the community where I live and then also, I mentioned earlier that the first version of this paper was prepared for a workshop on ethnic associations, black ethnic associations in Canada here and so different black ethnic associations were invited from all over Canada to this workshop that we had at the Balsillie school in April last year and so yes, based on one, my own membership of an ethnic association and two, this workshop that brought several ethnic associations together, I can say that yes, it is a difficult situation that Blacks find themselves in in the sense that many when they arrive there, they tend to shun their communities. They don't want to get involved that much with their ethnic associations. In fact, blacks in the diaspora often try to avoid other blacks and try to go solo and shun any meaningful collaborations with other blacks. It seems as if the mantra is “anybody but black,” which in my opinion is a very bad approach to the new country they find themselves in and so this way, what happens is that many of them are not actually involved in municipal politics, that's local politics. They are hardly represented on school boards. Even some parents will not even attend parent-teacher association meetings. You know, where they can meet with teachers to talk about the welfare of their children at school. Maybe because they're too busy running from one job to the other, which actually is not their fault. We can’t fault them for that cause with the type of jobs the majority of them do, they have to, you know, run around doing multiple jobs to be able to put food on the table for the families. And because of that, they do not have the time to get involved in local nor even provincial and federal politics.
So that is the sense in which I'm saying that the ethnic associations, they have to encourage their members and then they have to resource, they have to provide resources both financial and others that you mentioned; the volunteers that would do the door to door, you know. The community in which I live something significant happened that they had the affairs black member, the municipal board, they had the first black elected member during the last election and this was someone who had arrived in Canada just about 5 or 6 years ago. He arrived and he just set his mind on this, that he wanted to serve on the municipal council. And so, when he started, well, he was given encouragement by others. My point is that ethnic associations should do more of this, they should do more and more of this and carry their members to seek these positions and also resource them to do it.
Avery Moore Kloss 24:58
Robert, I wonder one of the questions we always ask on CRSP Talk is, you know, what's coming next? And I really want to thank you for being very clear about what the problem is here, what you think is one potential solution. And so, I wonder for you, what are you thinking about now going into the future? Like what kind of research are you hoping to get done? And what questions are you still seeking to answer?
Robert Ame 25:21
Well, there are several things that I'm doing now and the direction in which I want to take this particular research. But even before I get to that, I don't know if we have time. There are two other solutions that preferring here and one is self-help and community development. You know as I stated earlier, many blacks tend to shun their own communities when they arrive and especially the professionals, they tend to move out of the large black communities to settle in other communities. As much as others could help you, as much as others may help blacks, I think, it is only blacks who can provide the best help for themselves.
So, my suggestion would be for the ethnic associations to encourage unity and community development and one example I have about this is this story that made rounds several years ago in North America about a Ghanaian shop in one of the largest cities in North America. The shop initially became successful, new branches were opened in other parts of this large cosmopolitan city and it became a focal point in the community and the shop actually started sponsoring community events and activities. But, before long, rumors started spreading that the shop's success was due to the owner using juju or fetish or voodoo you know to run the business and before long, Ghanaians shunned the shop, and the business collapsed. Needless to say, the collapse of the business also meant that the sponsorships that came from that shop also went down. I mean, it was normal. My point is we should be able to support black businesses within the black communities and help them establish themselves very well, and help them to become successful, instead of undermining, instead of doing things that will not lead to the success of these shops and these businesses within the communities. I think that it is time that ethnic associations educate their members and talk about that.
The very next related point I have about that is black ethnic groups should learn from other ethnic associations because the literature on the history of racism in Canada is replete with examples of several other ethnic groups that have once not been favourably regarded by other Canadians and for which they were victims of discrimination and unfair treatment before the law but you know, some have managed to overcome and today enjoy considerable success and fair treatment in this country. For example, from this literature, we know that there was a time that Irish, French and Jews during the Second World War, Japanese, Chinese, there was a time that they were not looked upon favourably. They were discriminated against. But over the years, many of these groups have been able to rise up. They've been able to establish themselves and, in the process, have managed to gain respect from the rest of the country and overall, not that they are completely free from discrimination, not that they are completely free from various stereotypes and prejudice, but relatively they are doing much much better than black communities.
So, these two additional points, self-help and community development, but also learning from other ethnic associations that exist in this country, I strongly believe that could help advance the cause of blacks in this country, and by implication, it will help advance the cause of black youth in this country and the way they are perceived by other groups and treated unfairly, especially within the youth criminals Justice system.
Avery Moore Kloss 30:37
Your work is focused on the ethnic associations. Is there a part of this conversation that you want to have that is beyond maybe putting the burden this puts on ethnic associations and those ethnic groups to help solve the situation? Is there a burden that should be put on others? Outside of that ethnic group to also lend support, education, all that kind of stuff. Is that part of your work?
Robert Ame 31:02
Yes. That is an interesting point that you raised. With this current project, the focus is on the black community itself what can we do to help ourselves, to advance our cause, to help our children and youth even as they go out of our homes and interact with other people. But doing this is not to say that others do not have any responsibility towards our youth, obviously, as Canadians within the school system. within the labour force and all that I think overall responsibility from the municipal level to the provincial level, to the federal level, you know, these are all important. But for now, the focus is what can we do? And, said the saying goes, charity begins at home. Is there a way that we can come together and be united before we go out seeking further help from the municipal, from the provincial and federal levels and also even if we are to engage with various agencies within the criminal justice system, if we are divided, we will not be able to do that.
There was a recent case, was in last year? Or two years ago? Where a four-year-old, a four-year-old black student according to the teachers, he did something and then they called the police. Can imagine that? They called the police; you know to come for a four-year-old. I mean we all know children and we know how children in general behave should be go to that extent of a school calling the police because of the behavior of a four-year-old? But you know what happened, the Nigerian community came together and because they came together and were united, they were able to get not only the provincial level, they even got the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister actually visited this family. Why? Because the community rallied together. They came together and fought back when this small child, this young child was treated the way he was treated, by the school. So, it’s that type of thing I'm talking about. Let's be united ourselves, let's come together, then we can seek outside help to advance our interests and the things we are interested in.
Avery Moore Kloss 33:57
I think that's a spectacular answer to my question and thank you because I was really wondering about that, and I love your route of let's start with our community and then will know what to ask for. So, Robert as we wrap up, I wonder you know this has been really eye-opening. You've got a really interesting research and work, and I wonder is there anything that you wanted to mention? Is there anything I didn't ask you that you wanted to make sure you told us about your future work now, now is the time.
Robert Ame 34:25
Yes, as alluded to in my answer to the last question, that next level then will be, well, what can the system do for us? What can the school boards, the municipalities, the provincial level, I mean what can they do for us? So, that would be the obvious next step and as often happens with research, as you start, you know certain issues just pop up, related issues that lead you into different aspects of the same issue and so I am approaching this study with a very open mind that even as I read the literature and even as I pursue my own studies, any related issues that come up, I will be willing and ready to pounce on those and take my work in those directions.
Avery Moore Kloss 35:37
Thank you for tuning into this episode of CRSP Talk, brought to you by the Centre for Research on Security Practices at Wilfrid Laurier University. A big thank you to Doctor Ame for joining us and sharing some insight on his work. Also, a thank you to Carrie Sanders and Samantha Henderson from CRSP for their help on this episode. Doctor Ame has been engaging in other research on Truth and Reconciliation commissions and female ritual servitude in Ghana. For more information on the work Doctor Ame is doing, head to the show notes for resources and links.
We're so glad you joined us, and we can't wait to uncover more of our research on our next episode. This is CRSP talk and I'm Avery Moore Kloss.